I'm a big science fiction fan and love the idea of utopias. But it's hard to make compelling stories for people living in paradise. There has to be some gradient of feeling or need. I think that's why most of the stories in Star Trek or the Culture take place outside or on the fringes of those societies, or involve existential threats to them. And a lot of compelling sci-fi takes place in the ruins of those type of civilizations. Or it turns out to be a false utopia like in Logan's Run.
It's also worth noting that a true post-scarcity society seems unlikely. What seems to happen historically is people's needs and desires recalibrate, and the scarcity happens at a new level than before. A hunter-gatherer from 10,000 BCE would see our world as a post-scarcity society, at least at first, until their desires caught up.
Thanks! I had a similar thought that I even included in the original outline for this article, that we (at least many of us) are "post-scarcity" relative to the distant past. I suspect you're right that a society that everyone agrees is "post-scarcity" is unlikely because our desires will always focus on the stuff that we can't easily get, and that will become the new scarce thing.
We do live in a post-scarcity world in the sense that we produce enough energy, food, scarce nutrients, shelter, etc for all 8 billion of us, it’s just not, as a well-known SF writer said, “equally distributed “. I suspect this will be true of all human societies for quite some time, until the generational mindset of zero-sum competition is expunged.
If you can stomach the weird 50s Freudian elements, Forbidden Planet is an interesting example of a utopian sci-fi story that most definitely lacks the starry-eyed idealism of TNG. “Monsters from the id”!
I rather enjoy the series BABYLON FIVE. I don't think that the economics are radically different from the way that they are now. People are still people, even if they have scales, feathers, extra eyes & other organs, & hold on to seemingly archaic belief systems which seem strange even by terrestrial human standards. Not as starry - eyed idealistic & frankly somewhat more relatable than the Utopia of Star Trek's sanitized Federation. Narns are Klingons !
In economics, "scarcity" refers to the limits of any resource, especially relative to the comparatively unlimited wants people can have for the resource.
Humans can't escape scarcity as long as we're still human. Our human selves are limited, so our time will always be scarce and our proximity will always be scarce; we can't be everywhere at once nor do everything at once.
The desire to eliminate scarcity (if one understands what it means, and that scarcity is not an antonym for flourishing) is inevitably the desire to eliminate humans. As enjoyable as some of the stories like TNG are, such desires are best left to the realm of fiction.
You are entirely correct. As long as our identity depends on the existence of a physical manifestation (i.e., our bodies), we will always exist in some form, or at some level, of scarcity.
Beyond scarcity, our growth into ego transcendence is often held up as the pinnacle of meaning, but I wonder if it actually risks erasing the very individuality that makes meaning possible in the first place. Can we truly find meaning in dissolving the self, or does meaning always require a dance between ego and transcendence—a kind of creative tension rather than a final escape from ego altogether?
....... Science fiction's ability to act as philosophical thought experiments. .... what to do when you have everything.... .....
To answer the question 'what to do when you have everything,' I'd look back at my early childhood; abnd then at other well-provided childhoods perhaps.
When I look at science fiction, I see thought experiments essential for governance, for decision-making. How can serious adults in positions of authority NOT study 'old pulp fiction trash'?
However, why not bring this world on sooner than 300 yrs. The religious of us have een preching most of the same with more books written by non Devine writers. Take a shot, do a scribble of the Nearing - Living The Good Life. II thought it was sci-fi when I opened the jacket & never stopped. The idea germinated.
We certainly agree that science fiction is a powerful tool for exploring meaning and philosophy, utopian or dystopian. We note, however, that often it's a collective pursuit of individual utopias that leads inexorably to dystopian outcomes.
Tommy, we'd be honored if you checked out The Dick Lincoln Universe....
I'm a big science fiction fan and love the idea of utopias. But it's hard to make compelling stories for people living in paradise. There has to be some gradient of feeling or need. I think that's why most of the stories in Star Trek or the Culture take place outside or on the fringes of those societies, or involve existential threats to them. And a lot of compelling sci-fi takes place in the ruins of those type of civilizations. Or it turns out to be a false utopia like in Logan's Run.
It's also worth noting that a true post-scarcity society seems unlikely. What seems to happen historically is people's needs and desires recalibrate, and the scarcity happens at a new level than before. A hunter-gatherer from 10,000 BCE would see our world as a post-scarcity society, at least at first, until their desires caught up.
Cool post!
Thanks! I had a similar thought that I even included in the original outline for this article, that we (at least many of us) are "post-scarcity" relative to the distant past. I suspect you're right that a society that everyone agrees is "post-scarcity" is unlikely because our desires will always focus on the stuff that we can't easily get, and that will become the new scarce thing.
We do live in a post-scarcity world in the sense that we produce enough energy, food, scarce nutrients, shelter, etc for all 8 billion of us, it’s just not, as a well-known SF writer said, “equally distributed “. I suspect this will be true of all human societies for quite some time, until the generational mindset of zero-sum competition is expunged.
If you can stomach the weird 50s Freudian elements, Forbidden Planet is an interesting example of a utopian sci-fi story that most definitely lacks the starry-eyed idealism of TNG. “Monsters from the id”!
I'm totally here for STNG. They covered so many interesting philosophical questions!
I rather enjoy the series BABYLON FIVE. I don't think that the economics are radically different from the way that they are now. People are still people, even if they have scales, feathers, extra eyes & other organs, & hold on to seemingly archaic belief systems which seem strange even by terrestrial human standards. Not as starry - eyed idealistic & frankly somewhat more relatable than the Utopia of Star Trek's sanitized Federation. Narns are Klingons !
Yeah Babylon Five was great!
In economics, "scarcity" refers to the limits of any resource, especially relative to the comparatively unlimited wants people can have for the resource.
Humans can't escape scarcity as long as we're still human. Our human selves are limited, so our time will always be scarce and our proximity will always be scarce; we can't be everywhere at once nor do everything at once.
The desire to eliminate scarcity (if one understands what it means, and that scarcity is not an antonym for flourishing) is inevitably the desire to eliminate humans. As enjoyable as some of the stories like TNG are, such desires are best left to the realm of fiction.
You are entirely correct. As long as our identity depends on the existence of a physical manifestation (i.e., our bodies), we will always exist in some form, or at some level, of scarcity.
... and this scarcity isn't necessarily a bad thing. On net, I like being human 😎
Beyond scarcity, our growth into ego transcendence is often held up as the pinnacle of meaning, but I wonder if it actually risks erasing the very individuality that makes meaning possible in the first place. Can we truly find meaning in dissolving the self, or does meaning always require a dance between ego and transcendence—a kind of creative tension rather than a final escape from ego altogether?
....... Science fiction's ability to act as philosophical thought experiments. .... what to do when you have everything.... .....
To answer the question 'what to do when you have everything,' I'd look back at my early childhood; abnd then at other well-provided childhoods perhaps.
When I look at science fiction, I see thought experiments essential for governance, for decision-making. How can serious adults in positions of authority NOT study 'old pulp fiction trash'?
well, maybe a pt or too.
However, why not bring this world on sooner than 300 yrs. The religious of us have een preching most of the same with more books written by non Devine writers. Take a shot, do a scribble of the Nearing - Living The Good Life. II thought it was sci-fi when I opened the jacket & never stopped. The idea germinated.
We certainly agree that science fiction is a powerful tool for exploring meaning and philosophy, utopian or dystopian. We note, however, that often it's a collective pursuit of individual utopias that leads inexorably to dystopian outcomes.
Tommy, we'd be honored if you checked out The Dick Lincoln Universe....